[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire
org
X-URL: To unsubscribe, see http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html
>Paulette you need to talk to John. You need to find a copy of her birth
>certificate as a birth record will normally give you the parents names!
>Victoria
>
>John wasn't there someone else asking about a Valentine Quarterman, sometime
>last year?
Yes.
There are numerous Quarterman families represented on this list.
Most likely many of them are related somehow, but in most cases
we don't know how.
Maybe eventually we will find out.
However, a birth certificate for someone born in 1810 is going to be hard
to come by; those weren't all that common back then in this country, nor
were they all preserved.
Census records are another possibility.
JOhn
>-----Original Message-----
>From: paulette [mailto:soozieq03@c3net.net]
>Sent: 04 July 2000 22:41
>To: quarterman@matrix.net
>Subject: Re: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire
>
>
>Victoria, I have been reading your messages to John on the Quarterman
>family. I too am a Quarterman, but my family as far as I can trace it back
>was to a Valentine Quarterman from Pennsylvania born in 1810, the family
>then moved to Indiana and my particular family to Michigan. It seems to me
>that any and all Quarterman's have to be related in some way, but I cannot
>get beyond my 3rd greatgrandfather.
>Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in. Paulette Quarterman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Quarterman, Victoria (UK - England) <
>Victoria.Quarterman@eu.joneslanglasalle.com
><mailto:Victoria.Quarterman@eu.joneslanglasalle.com> >
>To: 'quarterman@matrix.net' <mailto:'quarterman@matrix.net'> <
>quarterman@matrix.net <mailto:quarterman@matrix.net> >
>Date: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 4:42 AM
>Subject: RE: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John S. Quarterman [ mailto:jsq@matrix.net <mailto:jsq@matrix.net> ]
>Sent: 03 July 2000 20:31
>To: quarterman@matrix.net <mailto:quarterman@matrix.net>
>Subject: Re: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire
>
>
>org
>X-URL: To unsubscribe, see http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html
><http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html>
>
>>@There are English Quatremaines on this list, and perhaps some of them
>>will add more to this discussion.@
>>
>>Yes me ! - Victoria
>
>Hi Victoria,
>
>>I don't know any thing about the American history but I have read Carter's
>>'The Quartremaynes of Oxfordshire'. There is only one green worn reference
>>book in the county library in Oxford, England.
>
>Doubtless the very same copy I looked at a few years ago in that same place.
>
>
>> I have a copy of part but
>>copyright laws mean that one can only legally copy one chapter or 5% of the
>
>>original.
>
>Is this really true? The book was published in 1936. Is the copyright
>on it still in force after 64 years?
>
>ACCORDING TO THE LIBRARIAN AT OXFORD LIBRARY, BUT I COULD DOUBLE CHECK WITH
>OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS.
>
>> I could scan in 5% and maybe we could put it on to the web page?
>>The alternative is to try and get permission from the Author if he is alive
>
>>to put it all on the web page?
>
>Mr. Carter was apparently not a young man when he wrote the book.
>If he was as young as 30, he would be 94 years old now. Many of
>us on this list know at least one relative who is that old, so
>it is conceivable that he is still alive. However, I suspect he
>was quite a bit older than 30 when he wrote the book.
>
>The only William F. Carter listed in the U.S. Library of Congress
>as writing books about English history is a William Fowler Carter
>born in 1856. If that's him, he would be 144 years old now.
>
>I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THIS IS THE SAME PERSON AS THE FIRST LINE OF CARTERS
>BOOK READS " THIS ANCIENT FAMILY (QUATREMAINS) FIRST ATTRACTED MY ATTENTION
>MORE THAN FIFTY YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS COLLECTING INFORMATION ABOUT THE
>FOWLERS"
>
>THEREFORE I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IN 1936 CARTER MUST HAVE BEEN AT LEAST SIXTY
>SIX ?
>
>And indeed, according to the Oxford U. Library catalog, that's our author.
>That catalog says the spelling of the title is:
> The Quatremains of Oxfordshire
>The Bodleian has two copies and Magdalen College has two copies.
>
>I DIDN'T KNOW THIS, BUT FOR POTENTIAL VISITORS TO OXFORD IT IS IMPORTANT
>THAT THEY KNOW A COPY IS IN THE OXFORD COUNTY LIBRARY, WESTGATE, OXFORD, AS
>THE BODLEIAN LIBRARY AND MAGDALEN COLLEGE WILL BE VIEWING BY APPOINTMENT
>ONLY.
>
>>John is it you who maintains the web page?
>
>Yes.
>
>> I could scan in some and send it to you as an attachment? What do you
>think?
>
>Er, typing it in would be even better.
>
>IS THERE NOT SOME WAY I CAN SCAN COPY AND PASTE THE INFORMATION ON TO THE
>PAGE AS THIS WILL SAVE TIME?
>
>> Carter also translates the Latin
>>around the tombs in Thame and I previously promised I would let you have
>>this info so I will look that up too.
>
>Good idea.
>
>I LOOKED IT UP LAST NIGHT AND CARTERS INTERPRETATION IS AS FOLLOWS:
>
>" O certeyn deth that now hast overthrow
>Richard Quatremayns Squyer and Sibil his wife that lie here now full (low)
>That with rial Princes of Counsel was true and wise famed
>To Richard Duke of York and aftur with his sone Kyng Edward the iiiith named
>
>That foundid in the Churche of Thame a chauntrie vi pore men and a
>fraternytie
>In the worship of Seynt Cristfere to be relevid in perpetuyte
>(They)that of her almys for thr Soulis a paternoster and (ave) devoutly wul
>Say
>of holy fadurs is grauntid they perdon of dayes forty alwey.
>Wiche Richard and Sibil oute of this Worlde passid in the yere of oure Lord
>A MCCCCLX
>Uppon their Soules Ihu haue mercy. Amen"
>
>Carter notes that 'Her almys' means 'their alms' ie their charity'.
>
>FURTHER IN ST MARYS CHURCH GUIDE IT STATES THAT THE OTHER TOMB STONE (IE
>THAT OF THOMAS QUATERMAIN DIED 1342 AND HIS WIFE KATHERINE, THEIR SON THOMAS
>DIED 1396 AND HIS WIFE JOAN WAS FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE 'POOR STONE' BECAUSE
>CHARITABLE GIFTS WERE PLACED ON IT BEFORE DISTRIBUTION.
>
>CARTER REFERS TO DR LEE S INTERPRETATION OF THE WORDING ON THIS TOMB AS
>WHEN CARTER FOUND THAT MOST OF THE BRASS STRIP SURROUNDING THE TOMB WHICH
>CONTAINED HAD ALMOST COMPLETELY BEEN TORN AWAY.
>
>CARTER QUOTES 'Dr Lee from Cottonian MS. Cleoptra C iii, folio 3b '
>as follows:
>
>'Hic jacent Thomas Quatremayn de Notrh Westene (et) Kath'r'na uxor eius quee
>fuit filia Roberti d'ni de Grey Rotherfeld' qui obierunt vi die Junii Anno
>d'ni millesimo cccxlij. Similiterque hic jacent Thomas filius precicti Thome
>Quatremayn et Johanna uxor eius qui quidem Thomas obiit vi die Maii
>Millesimo ccclxxxxvi quorum animabus p'picietur Deus. Amen.'
>
>CARTER NOTES THAT OF THE SMALL PART REMAINING THAT THE WORD 'Militis' EXISTS
>AFTER 'Grey Rithirfeld.
>
>
>>The other problem is that as the book was written so long ago it is no
>>longer in print by Oxford University Press. so one cannot buy a copy.
>
>And it's even impossible to find on the rare book market; I've had inquiries
>
>in at various places for more than 20 years now.
>
>I have another suggestion as well. How about if we talk to Oxford U. Press
>about doing a reprint? Either through them, or with their cooperation but
>through some other press?
>
>I WILL ASK OUP ..HOW MANY COPIES DO YOU THINK WE WOULD NEED?
>
>>The first recorded Quarterman (or spelling variation thereof) was Guilliame
>
>>Quartremayne in Oxford in 1116. Remember that William the Conqueror, King
>>William I of England came from Normandy in France in 1066 (Battle of
>>Hastings)
>
>Yes, but the Quatremaines did not come with William the Conqueror.
>My Aunt Jane has tried following that thread, and there are no
>Quatremaines under any obvious spelling in any of the lists
>associated with the Battle of Hastings or any events near that time.
>As you say, the first Quarterman turns up more than a generation later.
>
>This of course doesn't completely preclude our ancestors having come
>over with William; surnames were not common at that time, and they
>might not have yet adopted the surname.
>
>However, many more Normans came to England from Normandy in the
>times of Henry I (1100-1135) and Henry II (1154-1189). The Quatremains
>could have been among them.
>
>YES INDEED BUT BECAUSE OF THIS LINK IT IS EXTREMELY LIKELY THAT THE FIRST
>QUARTERMAN ANCESTOR TO LIVE IN ENGLAND DID COME FROM NORMANDY AND DEFIANTLY
>IN THE PERIOD COMMENCING WITH THE DATE 1066.
>
>I HAVEN'T HAD CHANCE TO RESEARCH THE BATTLE OF HASTINGS I HAVE ONLY BEEN
>RESEARCHING THIS FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS AND WHEN YOU WORK FULL TIME IT IS NOT
>EASY.
>
>BUT ONE OBSERVATION I WOULD MAKE WHICH NOONE SEEMS TO HAVE NOTED IS THAT THE
>OLD FASHIONED WAY OF WRITING A 'Q'WHEN COMBINED WITH A 'U' IN SCRIPT LOOKS
>VERY MUCH LIKE A 'W'.
>
>> The Norman's were brilliant as the majority could read and write
>>and they liked to list and record information. Hence the Doomsday Book.
>
>Indeed. Unfortunately, there are no Quatremaines in the Domesday Book,
>either.
>
>WE DEFIANTLY NEED TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE FIRST RECORDED QUARTERMAN.
>
>> In
>>modern French 'Quatre' means 'four' and 'main' means 'hand'. I understand
>>that the Norman's at that time wore chain mail (armour in the form of small
>
>>metal links or chains to protect from swords in battle). Carter refers to
>>the Quarterman name as meaning 'four hands' or 'mail fisted'. I therefore
>>understand that the four hands means two actual hands and two gloves of
>>chain mail over them, this probably refers to the fact that Guilliames'
>>father or relatives etc were well recognised for their heroic in battle
>
>That's one possibility.
>
>>Quarterman is not the American version of Quartre mayne but the Saxon
>>interpretation (the Saxons lived in England before the Norman's arrived in
>>1066.)
>
>Interesting. Was the Quarterman spelling ever actually used by people
>of that family in England?
>
>YES BUT MY FAMILY ARE QUARTERMAN S AND WE HAVE NEVER MOVED TO THE US AND
>ACCORDING TO THE OXFORD TELEPHONE DIRECTORY THE MAJORITY OF QUARTERMAN S
>LIVING IN THE OXFORD AREA TODAY USE THIS SPELLING ALTHOUGH THERE ARE QUITE A
>FEW QUARTERMAIN S.
>
>ALTHOUGH I WOULD NOTE THAT MY GREAT GRANDFATHERS W.W.I MEDALS HAVE
>QUARTERMAIN WRITTEN ON THEM!
>
>I HAVE COPIED EXTRACTS OF CHURCH RECORDS FROM CIRCA 16/17C WHICH WAS
>PRESUMABLY WHEN A CERTAIN QUARTERMAN FAMILY FIRST TOOK THAT BOAT TO AMERICA.
>I WILL CHECK WHEN I GET HOME TONIGHT AS TO THE SPELLING.
>
>>The most famous quartermans discussed by Carter are those buried in St Mary
>
>>Church in Thame and who built Rycote Chapel (English Heritage) These
>>hob-nobbed with nobility
>
>Yes, this is the Richard Quatremayne b. 1393 d. 1478 who was a member
>of Parliament for a long time. He's the same one who was reputed by
>some of his distant relatives to have been the Duke of Gloster even
>though, as we heard on this list a while back, he couldn't have been.
>
>> One was the fourth physician(doctor) to King Edward
>>of England and he was also a member of parliament.
>
>Um, I think you mean physician to Charles II, at least if you're referring
>to
>Dr. William Quatremain b. 1618 d. 1622 who was a patron of Magdalene
>College.
>Or maybe you're thinking of a different one.
>
>AS YOU PROBABLY GUESSED I WAS BEING VAGUE AS I COULDN'T QUITE REMEMBER. BUT
>I WILL REFER TO MY NOTES AND GET BACK TO YOU.
>
>> These quartermans are
>>likely to have had the same ancestors as all Quartermans'living today but
>>there are no direct decedents as the first born hereditary line finished
>>without an heir.
>
>Although even that line also has living descendants through the
>Littletons (some of them currently residing in Australia) and the
>Fowlers. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Carter were one of them,
>given his middle name.
>
>MR CARTER WAS INTERESTED IN THE QUARTERMAN FAMILY AS IT WAS HIS WIFE'S
>MAIDEN NAME.
>
>SIR RICHARD FOWLER WAS THE HEIR AND NEPHEW OF RICHARD QUARTERMAN WHO IS
>BURIED IN THAME
>CHURCH
>
>CARTER NOTES THAT FOR TWO OR THREE GENERATIONS IN 15 C THE FOWLERS WERE
>CONNECTED WITH THE QUATREMAINS FAMILY BY INTERMARRIAGE AND DECENT.
>
>And some of the more prominent Massachusetts ancestors of the Midway group
>were Fowlers. There is a gap of more than 100 years between them and
>the only Quatremayne Fowlers that I know of, so I can only speculate that
>they might be related.
>
>JOHN DO YOU KNOW WHICH OF YOUR QUARTERMAN ANCESTORS WERE BORN IN ENGLAND
>(WHERE) AND MOVED TO AMERICA (WHEN)?
>
>John
>[ This is the Quarterman family discussion list, quarterman@mids.org
>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html
><http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html>
>
>
>============================Disclaimer===============================
>Internet email is not a secure communication medium, and we advise that you
>observe this lack of security when emailing us. Notwithstanding, this email
>is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. Any opinion or advice it
>contains is subject to our terms and conditions of business. If you have
>received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete
>the message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use,
>disclose, or distribute this email without the author's prior permission. We
>have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software
>viruses, but we advise that you carry out your own virus checks on an
>attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or
>damage caused by software viruses.
>
>=====================================================================
>
>
>
>
>============================Disclaimer===============================
>Internet email is not a secure communication medium, and we advise that you
>observe this lack of security when emailing us. Notwithstanding, this email
>is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. Any opinion or advice it
>contains is subject to our terms and conditions of business. If you have
>received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete
>the message. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use,
>disclose, or distribute this email without the author's prior permission. We
>have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software
>viruses, but we advise that you carry out your own virus checks on an
>attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or
>damage caused by software viruses.
>=====================================================================
>
>
>
>------_=_NextPart_001_01BFE65F.568D84E0
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
><TITLE>RE: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire</TITLE>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
><META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=#c0c0c0>
><DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
>class=140145508-05072000>Paulette you need to talk to John. You need to find a
>
>copy of her birth certificate as a birth record will normally give you th
>e
>parents names!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
>class=140145508-05072000>Victoria</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
>class=140145508-05072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=140145508-05072000>John
>
>wasn't there someone else asking about a Valentine Quarterman, sometime last
>year?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
> size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> paulette
> [mailto:soozieq03@c3net.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 04 July 2000 22:41<BR><B>To:</B
>>
> quarterman@matrix.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: The Quatremains of
> Oxfordshire<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Victoria, I have been reading your messages
>to
> John on the Quarterman family. I too am a Quarterman, but my family as
>
> far as I can trace it back was to a Valentine Quarterman from Pennsylvania
> born in 1810, the family then moved to Indiana and my particular family to
> Michigan. It seems to me that any and all Quarterman's have to b
>e
> related in some way, but I cannot get beyond my 3rd
> greatgrandfather.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth
> in. Paulette Quarterman</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE
> style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From:
>
> </B>Quarterman, Victoria (UK - England) <<A
> href="mailto:Victoria.Quarterman@eu.joneslanglasalle.com">Victoria.Quarter
>man@eu.joneslanglasalle.com</A>><BR><B>To:
> </B><A href="mailto:'quarterman@matrix.net'">'quarterman@matrix.net'</A>
> <<A
> href="mailto:quarterman@matrix.net">quarterman@matrix.net</A>><BR><B>Da
>te:
> </B>Tuesday, July 04, 2000 4:42 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>RE: The Quatremains
>of
> Oxfordshire<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><BR>
> <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From:
> John S. Quarterman [<A
> href="mailto:jsq@matrix.net">mailto:jsq@matrix.net</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>Sent: 03 July 2000 20:31</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: <A
> href="mailto:quarterman@matrix.net">quarterman@matrix.net</A></FONT>
> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: Re: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire</FONT> </P><B
>R>
> <P><FONT size=2>org</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>X-URL: To unsubscribe, see <A
> href="http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html"
> target=_blank>http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html</A></FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>>@There are English Quatremaines on this list, and
> perhaps some of them</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>will add more to this
> discussion.@</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Yes
>me
> ! - Victoria</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Hi Victoria,</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>>I don't know any thing about the American history but
>I
> have read Carter's</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>'The Quartremaynes of
> Oxfordshire'. There is only one green worn reference</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>book in the county library in Oxford, England.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Doubtless the very same copy I looked at a few years ago i
>n
> that same place.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> I have a copy of part but</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>copyright laws mean that one can only legally copy one chapter
>or
> 5% of the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>original.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Is this really true? The book was published in
> 1936. Is the copyright</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>on it still in force
> after 64 years?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>ACCORDING TO THE LIBRARIAN AT OXFORD LIBRARY, BUT I COULD
> DOUBLE CHECK WITH OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> I could scan in 5% and maybe we could put it on
>
> to the web page?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>The alternative is to try and
>
> get permission from the Author if he is alive</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
>to
> put it all on the web page?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Mr. Carter was apparently not a young man when he wrote th
>e
> book.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>If he was as young as 30, he would be 94 yea
>rs
> old now. Many of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>us on this list know at lea
>st
> one relative who is that old, so</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>it is conceivable
>
> that he is still alive. However, I suspect he</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>was quite a bit older than 30 when he wrote the book.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>The only William F. Carter listed in the U.S. Library of
> Congress</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>as writing books about English history is
> a
> William Fowler Carter</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>born in 1856. If that'
>s
> him, he would be 144 years old now.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THIS IS THE SAME PERSON AS THE FIRST
> LINE OF CARTERS BOOK READS " THIS ANCIENT FAMILY (QUATREMAINS) FIRST
> ATTRACTED MY ATTENTION MORE THAN FIFTY YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS COLLECTING
> INFORMATION ABOUT THE FOWLERS" </FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>THEREFORE I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IN 1936 CARTER MUST HAVE BE
>EN
> AT LEAST SIXTY SIX ?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>And indeed, according to the Oxford U. Library catalog,
> that's our author.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>That catalog says the spelling
>of
> the title is:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2> The Quatremains of
> Oxfordshire</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>The Bodleian has two copies and Magdal
>en
> College has two copies.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>I DIDN'T KNOW THIS, BUT FOR POTENTIAL VISITORS TO OXFORD I
>T
> IS IMPORTANT THAT THEY KNOW A COPY IS IN THE OXFORD COUNTY LIBRARY,
> WESTGATE, OXFORD, AS THE BODLEIAN LIBRARY AND MAGDALEN COLLEGE WILL
>BE
> VIEWING BY APPOINTMENT ONLY. </FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>>John is it you who maintains the web page?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Yes.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> I could scan in some and send it to you as an
> attachment? What do you think?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Er, typing it in would be even better.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>IS THERE NOT SOME WAY I CAN SCAN COPY AND PASTE THE
> INFORMATION ON TO THE PAGE AS THIS WILL SAVE TIME?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> Carter also translates the Latin</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>around the tombs in Thame and I previously promised I would let
>
> you have</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>this info so I will look that up
> too.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Good idea.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>I LOOKED IT UP LAST NIGHT AND CARTERS INTERPRETATION IS AS
>
> FOLLOWS:</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>" O certeyn deth that now hast overthrow</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>Richard Quatremayns Squyer and Sibil his wife that lie here now ful
>l
> (low)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>That with rial Princes of Counsel was true a
>nd
> wise famed</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To Richard Duke of York and aftur with
> his sone Kyng Edward the iiiith named</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>That foundid
>
> in the Churche of Thame a chauntrie vi pore men and a fraternytie</FONT>
> <BR><FONT size=2>In the worship of Seynt Cristfere to be relevid in
> perpetuyte</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>(They)that of her almys for thr Soulis
>a
> paternoster and (ave) devoutly wul Say</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>of holy
> fadurs is grauntid they perdon of dayes forty alwey.</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>Wiche Richard and Sibil oute of this Worlde passid in the yere of
> oure Lord A MCCCCLX</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Uppon their Soules Ihu haue
> mercy. Amen"</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Carter notes that 'Her almys' means 'their alms' ie their
> charity'. </FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>FURTHER IN ST MARYS CHURCH GUIDE IT STATES THAT THE OTHER
> TOMB STONE (IE THAT OF THOMAS QUATERMAIN DIED 1342 AND HIS WIFE KATHERINE,
>
> THEIR SON THOMAS DIED 1396 AND HIS WIFE JOAN WAS FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE 'PO
>OR
> STONE' BECAUSE CHARITABLE GIFTS WERE PLACED ON IT BEFORE
> DISTRIBUTION.</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>CARTER REFERS TO DR LEE S INTERPRETATION OF THE
> WORDING ON THIS TOMB AS WHEN CARTER FOUND THAT MOST OF THE BRASS STRIP
> SURROUNDING THE TOMB WHICH CONTAINED HAD ALMOST COMPLETELY BEEN TORN
> AWAY.</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>CARTER QUOTES 'Dr Lee from Cottonian MS. Cleoptra C iii,
> folio 3b '</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>as follows:</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>'Hic jacent Thomas Quatremayn de Notrh Westene (et)
> Kath'r'na uxor eius quee fuit filia Roberti d'ni de Grey Rotherfeld' qui
> obierunt vi die Junii Anno d'ni millesimo cccxlij. Similiterque hic jacent
>
> Thomas filius precicti Thome Quatremayn et Johanna uxor eius qui quidem
> Thomas obiit vi die Maii Millesimo ccclxxxxvi quorum animabus p'picietur
> Deus. Amen.'</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>CARTER NOTES THAT OF THE SMALL PART REMAINING THAT THE WOR
>D
> 'Militis' EXISTS AFTER 'Grey Rithirfeld.</FONT> </P><BR>
> <P><FONT size=2>>The other problem is that as the book was written so
> long ago it is no</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>longer in print by Oxford
> University Press. so one cannot buy a copy.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>And it's even impossible to find on the rare book market;
> I've had inquiries</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>in at various places for more
> than 20 years now.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>I have another suggestion as well. How about if we
> talk to Oxford U. Press</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>about doing a reprint?&nbs
>p;
> Either through them, or with their cooperation but</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>through some other press?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>I WILL ASK OUP ..HOW MANY COPIES DO YOU THINK WE WOULD
> NEED?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>>The first recorded Quarterman (or spelling variation
> thereof) was Guilliame</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Quartremayne in Oxford
>in
> 1116. Remember that William the Conqueror, King</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>William I of England came from Normandy in France in 1066 (Batt
>le
> of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Hastings)</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Yes, but the Quatremaines did not come with William the
> Conqueror.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>My Aunt Jane has tried following that
> thread, and there are no</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Quatremaines under any
> obvious spelling in any of the lists</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>associated wi
>th
> the Battle of Hastings or any events near that time.</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>As you say, the first Quarterman turns up more than a generation
> later.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>This of course doesn't completely preclude our ancestors
> having come</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>over with William; surnames were not
> common at that time, and they</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>might not have yet
> adopted the surname.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>However, many more Normans came to England from Normandy i
>n
> the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>times of Henry I (1100-1135) and Henry II
> (1154-1189). The Quatremains</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>could have been
>
> among them.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>YES INDEED BUT BECAUSE OF THIS LINK IT IS EXTREMELY LIKELY
>
> THAT THE FIRST QUARTERMAN ANCESTOR TO LIVE IN ENGLAND DID COME FROM NORMAN
>DY
> AND DEFIANTLY IN THE PERIOD COMMENCING WITH THE DATE 1066.</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>I HAVEN'T HAD CHANCE TO RESEARCH THE BATTLE OF HASTINGS I
> HAVE ONLY BEEN RESEARCHING THIS FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS AND WHEN YOU WORK FULL
>
> TIME IT IS NOT EASY. </FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>BUT ONE OBSERVATION I WOULD MAKE WHICH NOONE SEEMS TO HAVE
>
> NOTED IS THAT THE OLD FASHIONED WAY OF WRITING A 'Q'WHEN COMBINED WITH A '
>U'
> IN SCRIPT LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE A 'W'. </FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> The Norman's were brilliant as the majority could rea
>d
> and write</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>and they liked to list and record
> information. Hence the Doomsday Book.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Indeed. Unfortunately, there are no Quatremaines in
> the Domesday Book, either.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>WE DEFIANTLY NEED TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE FIRST RECORDE
>D
> QUARTERMAN.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> In</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>modern French 'Quatre'
>
> means 'four' and 'main' means 'hand'. I understand</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>that the Norman's at that time wore chain mail (armour in the
> form of small</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>metal links or chains to protect
>
> from swords in battle). Carter refers to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>the
> Quarterman name as meaning 'four hands' or 'mail fisted'. I therefore</FON
>T>
> <BR><FONT size=2>>understand that the four hands means two actual hands
>
> and two gloves of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>chain mail over them, this
> probably refers to the fact that Guilliames'</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>father or relatives etc were well recognised for their heroic i
>n
> battle</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>That's one possibility.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>>Quarterman is not the American version of Quartre mayn
>e
> but the Saxon</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>interpretation (the Saxons lived
>
> in England before the Norman's arrived in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>1066
>.)
> </FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Interesting. Was the Quarterman spelling ever actual
>ly
> used by people</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>of that family in England?</FONT>
></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>YES BUT MY FAMILY ARE QUARTERMAN S AND WE HAVE NEVER MOVED
>
> TO THE US AND ACCORDING TO THE OXFORD TELEPHONE DIRECTORY THE MAJORITY OF
> QUARTERMAN S LIVING IN THE OXFORD AREA TODAY USE THIS SPELLING ALTHOUGH
> THERE ARE QUITE A FEW QUARTERMAIN S. </FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>ALTHOUGH I WOULD NOTE THAT MY GREAT GRANDFATHERS W.W.I
> MEDALS HAVE QUARTERMAIN WRITTEN ON THEM!</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>I HAVE COPIED EXTRACTS OF CHURCH RECORDS FROM CIRCA 16/17C
>
> WHICH WAS PRESUMABLY WHEN A CERTAIN QUARTERMAN FAMILY FIRST TOOK THAT BOAT
>
> TO AMERICA. I WILL CHECK WHEN I GET HOME TONIGHT AS TO THE
> SPELLING.</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>>The most famous quartermans discussed by Carter are
> those buried in St Mary</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Church in Thame and wh
>o
> built Rycote Chapel (English Heritage) These</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>hob-nobbed with nobility</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Yes, this is the Richard Quatremayne b. 1393 d. 1478 who w
>as
> a member</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>of Parliament for a long time. He's
>
> the same one who was reputed by</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>some of his distan
>t
> relatives to have been the Duke of Gloster even</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>though, as we heard on this list a while back, he couldn't have
> been.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> One was the fourth physician(doctor) to King
> Edward</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>of England and he was also a member of
> parliament.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Um, I think you mean physician to Charles II, at least if
> you're referring to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Dr. William Quatremain b. 1618
>
> d. 1622 who was a patron of Magdalene College.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Or
> maybe you're thinking of a different one.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>AS YOU PROBABLY GUESSED I WAS BEING VAGUE AS I COULDN'T
> QUITE REMEMBER. BUT I WILL REFER TO MY NOTES AND GET BACK TO YOU.</FONT></
>P>
> <P><FONT size=2>> These quartermans are</FONT> <BR><FONT
> size=2>>likely to have had the same ancestors as all Quartermans'living
>
> today but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>there are no direct decedents as the
>
> first born hereditary line finished</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>without an
>
> heir.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>Although even that line also has living descendants throug
>h
> the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Littletons (some of them currently residing in
>
> Australia) and the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Fowlers. I wouldn't be
> surprised if Mr. Carter were one of them,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>given hi
>s
> middle name.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>MR CARTER WAS INTERESTED IN THE QUARTERMAN FAMILY AS IT WA
>S
> HIS WIFE'S MAIDEN NAME.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>SIR RICHARD FOWLER WAS THE HEIR AND NEPHEW OF RICHAR
>D
> QUARTERMAN WHO IS BURIED IN THAME </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>CHURCH</FONT> </
>P>
> <P><FONT size=2>CARTER NOTES THAT FOR TWO OR THREE GENERATIONS IN 15 C THE
>
> FOWLERS WERE CONNECTED WITH THE QUATREMAINS FAMILY BY INTERMARRIAGE AND
> DECENT.</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT size=2>And some of the more prominent Massachusetts ancestors of
> the Midway group</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>were Fowlers. There is a ga
>p
> of more than 100 years between them and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the only
> Quatremayne Fowlers that I know of, so I can only speculate that</FONT>
> <BR><FONT size=2>they might be related.</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>JOHN DO YOU KNOW WHICH OF YOUR QUARTERMAN ANCESTORS WERE
> BORN IN ENGLAND (WHERE) AND MOVED TO AMERICA (WHEN)?</FONT> </P>
> <P><FONT size=2>John</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>[ This is the Quarterman fami
>ly
> discussion list, quarterman@mids.org</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>[ To get off
>or
> on the list, see <A href="http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html"
> target=_blank>http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html</A></FONT> </P><BR>
> <P><FONT
> size=2>============================Disclaimer=============================
>==</FONT>
> <BR><FONT size=2>Internet email is not a secure communication medium, and
>we
> advise that you observe this lack of security when emailing us.
> Notwithstanding, this email is for the use of the intended recipient(s)
> only. Any opinion or advice it contains is subject to our terms and
> conditions of business. If you have received it in error, please
> notify the sender immediately and then delete the message. If you ar
>e
> not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, or distribute this
> email without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to
> minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise that you
>
> carry out your own virus checks on an attachment to this message. We
>
> cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software
> viruses.</FONT></P>
> <P><FONT
> size=2>===================================================================
>==</FONT>
> </P><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
><BR>
><BR>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">============================Disclaimer===========
>====================</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Internet email is not a secure communication medi
>um, and we advise that you observe this lack of security when emailing us. No
>twithstanding, this email is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. A
>ny opinion or advice it contains is subject to our terms and conditions of bus
>iness. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately
> and then delete the message. If you are not the intended recipient you must
>not use, disclose, or distribute this email without the author's prior permiss
>ion. We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software v
>iruses, but we advise that you carry out your own virus checks on an attachmen
>t to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused b
>y software viruses.</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">=================================================
>====================</FONT></P>
><BR>
><BR>
>
>------_=_NextPart_001_01BFE65F.568D84E0--
>[ This is the Quarterman family discussion list, quarterman@mids.org
>[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html
[ This is the Quarterman family discussion list, quarterman@mids.org
[ To get off or on the list, see http://www.quarterman.org/q/list.html