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RE: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire

Title: RE: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire


>>>>Is this really true?  The book was published in 1936.  Is the copyright
>>>>on it still in force after 64 years?
>>>According to the librarian at Oxford library, but I could double check with
>>>Oxford University Press.
>>Yes, please.
>I have just spoken to Oxford University Press. As Carters books is so old
>they do not have a copy of it on their database. So it is impossible to
>order reprints. I am referred to a specialist second hand book seller and I
>note your comments regarding the fruits of your efforts in that direction.

You may have better luck in Oxon than I did trying bookstores stateside.
Still, it's a hard book to find.

>This highlights the importance of the books in existence remaining as
>reference copies for all future generations.


>The best we can do it to write to the rights department at Oxford University
>Just spoken to the rights department at OUP. I will not need their
>permission to re print the book (obviously need to get Bodleins or OC
>library's permission as well) If I can prove that the author has been dead
>for 70 years. As copyright expires 70 years after the authors death.

>I don't know when he died but as he is not 144 and apparently wrote the book
>when he was 80 he is clearly not alive today(so we cannot obtain Carters


>Assuming Carter was alive in 1936 when the book was printed we
>are not yet 70 years after his death however long that was after the book
>was published.

I'm afraid you're right.

>This means OUP have the discretion to grant permission to copy the book and
>then will charge 10% of whatever it is sold for as a royalty.

10% is a bit steep, but at least then they have incentive to agree to have
it reprinted.

>I will write to request consent but need to know how many copies we would
>initially need?

Maybe other list members will speak up.

My experience is that there are several scales of economy, roughly

 1-9 copies: photocopying; probably the most expensive per copy,
        and the least like a book.

 10-99 copies: DocuPress, which is a printing process that is similar
        to photocopying and uses machines that look the same, but handles
        larger quantities better and does rudimentary binding.

 100-299 copies: DocuPress or expensive offset printing.

 300-up copies: Offset printing.

I would prefer not to bother with the photocopying route; it will fall apart;
pieces will get lost; when more people want copies we'd just have to do it
again; etc.

I agree.

I have made some enquires and the first thing the printers will charge for is scanning in the actual book. So assuming OUP reply positively, I will try and get permission to take a laptop and a scanner into the library and scan it there myself as the book is a reference copy, the library may be more amenable to this rather than letting me take the book away. It will then be cheaper to give the info on a disk to a printers for binding, plus I will have a disk for future copies.

I'd probably prefer to make either about 50 copies via DocuPress
or go for 150 or more via offset printing.

>And then I can talk to a printer about cost.

Good plan.

If we want this thing to be durable, we probably want acid-free paper,
at least 50# weight, hardback, not soft cover, and with a real
binding.  The binding can add as much as $5/book, but is well worth it.
I agree.

This is a fairly short book, so the price could still be kept
relatively low.
sounds good

>>>>> Carter also translates the Latin
>>>>>around the tombs in Thame and I previously promised I would let you have
>>>>>this info so I will look that up too.
>>>>Good idea.
>>>I looked it up last night and Carters interpretation is as follows:
>>I think these are the brasses shown in Clay's pictures in
>> http://www.quarterman.org/q/clay/
>Clays picture are of the two Thomas' and Katherine & Joan's tomb and do not
>include pictures of Richard & Sibil's tomb. I know this because the
>photographs relate to the tomb with four brasses upon it.
>Interestingly, Richard and Sibils tomb has three brasses and the third, a
>much smaller figure, is rumoured to be Richard Fowler.
>John please could you copy the inscriptions below and put them on your web

OK, done.  Look under Places, then Oxfordshire, then Thame.


>I need to set up a page myself and link it to yours

Good idea.  The more the merrier.

> but I don't know how I will try and learn!

I'm sure you can.

>I just had a brilliant idea. The south transept in St Mary's Church Thame is
>the part containing the two tombs. this is currently a book shop. Wouldn't
>it be brilliant if we could get Carter reprinted and put copies for sale
>here ??

A very good idea.

You could even ask them if they'd be willing to preorder some books for
payment on delivery to them.

>>>Carter quotes 'Dr Lee from Cottonian MS. Cleoptra C iii, folio 3b '
>>>as follows:
>>Dr. Lee's book is also in the Oxford County Library.  Its title is:
>> The History, Description, and Antiquities of the Prebendal Church of
>> the Blessed Virgin Mary of Thame, In the County and Diocese of Oxford,
>> etc.
>>by Rev. Frederick George Lee, D.D., F.S.A Vicar of All Saints, Lambeth, etc.
>>1883, Mitchell and Hughes
>>140 Harbour Street, W., London
>>I haven't read this but I will.

It's pretty interesting.

>>Who on this list would buy a copy?

>let's take a poll... about book numbers indeed.

Calling all list members....

>>>We defiantly need to find out more about the first recorded Quarterman.
>>I'm all for it.

>>>>>Quarterman is not the American version of Quartre mayne but the Saxon
>>>>>interpretation (the Saxons lived in England before the Norman's arrived
>>>>Interesting.  Was the Quarterman spelling ever actually used by people
>>>>of that family in England?
>>>Yes but my family are Quarterman s and we have never moved to the US and
>>>according to the Oxford telephone directory the majority of Quarterman s
>>>living in the Oxford area today use this spelling although there are quite
>>>few Quartermain s.
>>There's an obvious check that I never thought to make.
>>Very interesting.

According to the Protestation Returns of Oxfordshire there are several QuaRtermain s as early as 1310
e.g. Anne Quartermain daughter of Richard & Elizabeth QuaRtermain was christened on 21st May 1310 in Chislehampton
>Telephone directories will be a major resource for our descendants!!! and we
>all want to go ex-directory!!!!!

Could be.

We found a lot of Quartermans stateside via switchboard.com.

>>Interesting. The things you can find when you actually ahve a copy of
>>Carter's book to refer to.
>Part of it as I said the librarians are quite adamant about how much one can

Well, it's their job.

>>>John do you know which of your Quarterman ancestors were born in England
>>>(where) and moved to America (when)?
>>See above.  Beyond that little bit, we don't know much about the antecedents
>>of our immigrant ancestor Robert Quarterman.  We have never found any proof
>>of what ship or port he came on, or even that he came from England.
>>We don't even know his wife's name.  We do have reason to believe that
>>his children were:
>> Robert QUARTERMAN, d. 1739, South Carolina.
>> Richard QUARTERMAN, d. 1740, South Carolina.
>> Ann QUARTERMAN, b. South Carolina.
>> Thomas QUARTERMAN, b. South Carolina.
>> John QUARTERMAN Sr., b. South Carolina.
>> Mary QUARTERMAN, b. 1711, South Carolina.
>>If we're right about them, there's a good chance his wife was named Ann.
>How frustrating there must be a record somewhere.

Well, there are several difficulties.
* There were many Robert Quartermans in England at the time.
* He was a dissenter, so related records might not be in the parish
  churches where you'd expect to find them.
* His parents may have been born during the unpleasantness of
  the 1640s, during which many records were lost.
* Records on this side of the pond are very scanty about him because
  the British burned the records in Charleston during a later war, c1781.
* He was probably not wealthy in England.
* Although we have guessed he was from Chalgrove, we don't know that;
  he could as easily have been from Wallingford, or Thame, or....

> There is a whole
>emigration department in the Family Records Centre in Islington London
>See http://www.pro.gov.uk/
>Maybe you could paste this link onto the web page.

Added.  Look under Places, then under Oxfordshire.

>The records probably don't go back that far but its worth checking. In the
>main most of the records in from 16C are church records. And there is no
>centralised system yet so you need to know which church records to study to
>find a birth ( well a christening, if you weren't christened there is no

I have heaps of records from Chalgrove that were copied for me by
John W. Steel-Clark of the Chalgrove Local History Group.
Nothing I've found in them indicates that our Robert is in them.

>Have you any idea where Robert Quarterman may have been born ?

Not really.  The best clue we have is that since he joined a group
of Puritans who themselves were mostly drawn from southern Oxon and
Dorset, he probably also came from that area.  Well, plus given the
planter nature of that community and of all his descendants, he
was probably not a city slicker, so I'd be surprised if he was
from Oxford itself.

Ah is this the information from Eugene Quarterman of San Francisco Carter refers to.? You really should contact him if you haven't yet as Eugene told Carter that Quartermans of Georgia sailed from Plymouth on 30 March 1630 on board the 'Mary & John'.

Eugene may have more information.?

But this means that your Robert was born in the US.

I can let you have the info on Robert Quartermans in The Protestation Returns of Oxfordshire if you think this would be helpful?

>Cant you try the first US land registry records surely they would have asked
>birth dates in order to confirm that Robert was at least 21?

Most of the few records we have about him are land records.
As mentioned, he should have been at least 21 in 1695.

>>We do know he was a Congregationalist, i.e., a dissenter.
>>And he chose to move to a place in South Carolina where
>>a group of Congregationalists from Massachusetts was just
>>arriving.  Considering how Puritans tended to write to
>>each other, even across the Atlantic, he quite likely knew
>>about them, and may have even been related to them.
>>This is all, of course, assuming he wasn't a descendant of
>>Quartermans already in America.  There were at least two earlier
>>in Maryland, who seem to vanish.
>Who were the two earlier in Maryland maybe their births are in English
>church records?

Let's move that to another message.


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