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RE: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire

Title: RE: The Quatremains of Oxfordshire


>>Is this really true?  The book was published in 1936.  Is the copyright
>>on it still in force after 64 years?
>According to the librarian at Oxford library, but I could double check with
>Oxford University Press.

Yes, please.

I have just spoken to Oxford University Press. As Carters books is so old they do not have a copy of it on their database. So it is impossible to order reprints. I am referred to a specialist second hand book seller and I note your comments regarding the fruits of your efforts in that direction.

This highlights the importance of the books in existence remaining as reference copies for all future generations.

The best we can do it to write to the rights department at Oxford University Press

Just spoken to the rights department at OUP. I will not need their permission to re print the book (obviously need to get Bodleins or OC library's permission as well) If I can prove that the author has been dead for 70 years. As copyright expires 70 years after the authors death.

I don't know when he died but as he is not 144 and apparently wrote the book when he was 80 he is clearly not alive today(so we cannot obtain Carters permission). Assuming Carter was alive in 1936 when the book was printed we are not yet 70 years after his death however long that was after the book was published.

This means OUP have the discretion to grant permission to copy the book and then will charge 10% of whatever it is sold for as a royalty.

I will write to request consent but need to know how many copies we would initially need?

And then I can talk to a printer about cost.

>>> Carter also translates the Latin
>>>around the tombs in Thame and I previously promised I would let you have
>>>this info so I will look that up too.
>>Good idea.
>I looked it up last night and Carters interpretation is as follows:

I think these are the brasses shown in Clay's pictures in

Clays picture are of the two Thomas' and Katherine & Joan's tomb and do not include pictures of Richard & Sibil's tomb. I know this because the photographs relate to the tomb with four brasses upon it.

Interestingly, Richard and Sibils tomb has three brasses and the third, a much smaller figure, is rumoured to be Richard Fowler.

John please could you copy the inscriptions below and put them on your web page.

I need to set up a page myself and link it to yours but I don't know how I will try and learn!

I just had a brilliant idea. The south transept in St Mary's Church Thame is the part containing the two tombs. this is currently a book shop. Wouldn't it be brilliant if we could get Carter reprinted and put copies for sale here ??

>" O certeyn deth that now hast overthrow
>Richard Quatremayns Squyer and Sibil his wife that lie here now full (low)
>That with rial Princes of Counsel was true and wise famed
>To Richard Duke of York and aftur with his sone Kyng Edward the iiiith named
>That foundid in the Churche of Thame a chauntrie vi pore men and a
>In the worship of Seynt Cristfere to be relevid in perpetuyte
>(They)that of her almys for thr Soulis a paternoster and (ave) devoutly wul
>of holy fadurs is grauntid they perdon of dayes forty alwey.
>Wiche Richard and Sibil oute of this Worlde passid in the yere of oure Lord
>Uppon their Soules Ihu haue mercy. Amen"
>Carter notes that 'Her almys' means 'their alms' ie their charity'.

Further note that the date has not been finished so presumably it was done in Richards life and upon his death noone finished it.

>Further in St Marys Church guide it states that the other tomb stone (ie
>that of Thomas Quatermain died 1342 and his wife Katherine, their son Thomas
>died 1396 and his wife Joan was formerly known as the 'poor stone' because
>charitable gifts were placed on it before distribution.
>Carter refers to Dr Lee s  interpretation of the wording on this tomb as
>when carter found that most of the brass strip surrounding the tomb which
>contained had almost completely been torn away.
>Carter quotes 'Dr Lee from Cottonian MS. Cleoptra C iii, folio 3b '
>as follows:

Dr. Lee's book is also in the Oxford County Library.  Its title is:
 The History, Description, and Antiquities of the Prebendal Church of
 the Blessed Virgin Mary of Thame, In the County and Diocese of Oxford,
by Rev. Frederick George Lee, D.D., F.S.A Vicar of All Saints, Lambeth, etc.
1883, Mitchell and Hughes
140 Harbour Street, W., London

I haven't read this but I will.

>'Hic jacent Thomas Quatremayn de Notrh Westene (et) Kath'r'na uxor eius quee
>fuit filia Roberti d'ni de Grey Rotherfeld' qui obierunt vi die Junii Anno
>d'ni millesimo cccxlij. Similiterque hic jacent Thomas filius precicti Thome
>Quatremayn et Johanna uxor eius qui quidem Thomas obiit vi die Maii
>Millesimo ccclxxxxvi quorum animabus p'picietur Deus. Amen.'
>Carter notes that of the small part remaining that the word 'Militis' exists
>after 'Grey Rithirfeld.

let's take a poll... about book numbers indeed.

Who on this list would buy a copy?

>We defiantly need to find out more about the first recorded Quarterman.

I'm all for it.

>>>Quarterman is not the American version of Quartre mayne but the Saxon
>>>interpretation (the Saxons lived in England before the Norman's arrived in
>>Interesting.  Was the Quarterman spelling ever actually used by people
>>of that family in England?
>Yes but my family are Quarterman s and we have never moved to the US and
>according to the Oxford telephone directory the majority of Quarterman s
>living in the Oxford area today use this spelling although there are quite a
>few Quartermain s.

There's an obvious check that I never thought to make.
Very interesting.

Telephone directories will be a major resource for our descendants!!! and we all want to go ex-directory!!!!!

>I have copied extracts of church records from circa 16/17c which was
>presumably when a certain Quarterman family first took that boat to America.
>I will check when I get home tonight as to the spelling.

Sounds good.

I will have a look tonight

Our ancestor Robert Quarterman (not Rev. Robert, rather his ancestor)
first appears in South Carolina in 1695.  If he was 21 at the time
(which he would have had to have been to own land), he would have been
born about 1674.  He could have been older.  He died in 1710.

>>> These quartermans are
>>>likely to have had the same ancestors as all Quartermans'living today but
>>>there are no direct decedents as the first born hereditary line finished
>>>without an heir.
>>Although even that line also has living descendants through the
>>Littletons (some of them currently residing in Australia) and the
>>Fowlers.  I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Carter were one of them,
>>given his middle name.
>Mr Carter was interested in the Quarterman family as it was his wife's
>maiden name.

Interesting. The things you can find when you actually ahve a copy of
Carter's book to refer to.

Part of it as I said the librarians are quite adamant about how much one can copy!!

>John do you know which of your Quarterman ancestors were born in England
>(where) and moved to America (when)?

See above.  Beyond that little bit, we don't know much about the antecedents
of our immigrant ancestor Robert Quarterman.  We have never found any proof
of what ship or port he came on, or even that he came from England.
We don't even know his wife's name.  We do have reason to believe that
his children were:

 Robert QUARTERMAN, d. 1739, South Carolina.
 Richard QUARTERMAN, d. 1740, South Carolina.
 Ann QUARTERMAN, b. South Carolina.
 Thomas QUARTERMAN, b. South Carolina.
 John QUARTERMAN Sr., b. South Carolina.
 Mary QUARTERMAN, b. 1711, South Carolina.

If we're right about them, there's a good chance his wife was named Ann.

How frustrating there must be a record somewhere. There is a whole emigration department in the Family Records Centre in Islington London

See http://www.pro.gov.uk/

Maybe you could paste this link onto the web page.

The records probably don't go back that far but its worth checking. In the main most of the records in from 16C are church records. And there is no centralised system yet so you need to know which church records to study to find a birth ( well a christening, if you weren't christened there is no record).

Have you any idea where Robert Quarterman may have been born ?

Cant you try the first US land registry records surely they would have asked birth dates in order to confirm that Robert was at least 21?

We do know he was a Congregationalist, i.e., a dissenter.
And he chose to move to a place in South Carolina where
a group of Congregationalists from Massachusetts was just
arriving.  Considering how Puritans tended to write to
each other, even across the Atlantic, he quite likely knew
about them, and may have even been related to them.

This is all, of course, assuming he wasn't a descendant of
Quartermans already in America.  There were at least two earlier
in Maryland, who seem to vanish.

Who were the two earlier in Maryland maybe their births are in English church records?


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